What We Got Wrong About The Witcher | Doug Cockle, Voice of Geralt

Geralt Is Not Emotionless

SPEAKER_02 0:00

The developers from CDPR they described him as emotionless. They're a necessary evil. And I always bristled against the idea that he was emotionless. Because that would make him unrelatable. He's not emotionless. He pushes that emotion down. If he doesn't, he's gonna die. But then I recognize that part of myself in Geralt.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

You know, I often ask myself how I would act if I was in Geralt's shoes, the protagonist from the Witcher series, and honestly, I'd probably just stay in the bath the whole time. But Geralt is a reluctant hero, as so many people are, and I think there's this misconception with him that he's cold, stone-hearted, and unfeeling towards others. And I don't think that could be further from the truth. So today I'm talking with Doug Cockle, the voice behind Geralt, to get a sense of the beating heart that sits beneath one of video games' most beloved, if not surly, protagonists. You know, I wanted to talk to Doug about how he found that balance of stoicism and slightly standoffishness. And beneath it, there's a warmness, I think, to Geralt's voice. And as part of what makes him such a lovable character, we talk about what he sees in the character and what we can learn from Geralt, who is someone who likes to kind of lead the world a little bit better off than how he left it, even if there are, you know, a few casualties in his wake. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I really enjoyed this conversation. You can support me on Patreon for free or join up as a paying member for bonus content. Do subscribe. Thank you

Finding the Heart Beneath Geralt's Stoicism

SPEAKER_00 1:23

very much.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Well, the the thing that really struck me when I first met Geralt, and understand I didn't have the books, they weren't printed in English yet, so I didn't have that to um reference to get to know the character. I didn't know about the Polish TV series. Um all I had was the developers from CDPR who were describing this character to me. And they described him as emotionless because of the trial of the grasses, and they described him as, you know, uh a monster hunter who's hated by people generally because they're scary, they're kind of a monster themselves, but they're a necessary evil in society. Um and that was kind of all I had to go on. And I always bristled against the idea that he was emotionless. I understood the idea that the trial of the grasses made him emotionless, but I never believed that he was actually emotionless. I what I always because that would make him unrelatable.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Um I always felt that what Geralt was he went through this horrific ordeal, came out the other end uh having learned that he was a hell of a lot tougher than he thought, um, but also that the world wasn't gonna give him any kind of a break. So he had to just get on with it and swallow the proverbial frog. And so I my take was that he's not emotionless, he pushes that emotion down. Uh if he doesn't, he's gonna die. The job he has, he cannot give in to emotion. He cannot allow that to be a driving force in his life. He has a job to do and he's gonna do it and emotion be damned. Um and I without wanting to sound like a a whiny, you know, uh 2026 white male or anything like that, uh, or just male in general, um, that is something that guys do. You know, we are taught at an early age to not cry, to not show emotion, to be as stoic as we can, to uh to not give in to the pain. And that's a really useful thing. But it's also harmful at the same time. So it anyways, my point is that I recognize that in Geralt and I kind of I

How Geralt Learns to Express Emotion

SPEAKER_02 4:29

liked the way that he handled it. What I loved about the journey with Geralt is that very gradually over the course of the games and the DLCs, the writers allowed Geralt to begin to have emotions and to express them in little ways. And by the end by the time we got to the end of Blood and Wine, I felt that you know, through his relationship with various people in the game, and depending on your choices, of course, and his relationship with Regis that we saw a very different Geralt, a Geralt who was accepting his emotions and allowing them to be a part of his decision-making process and about and and allowing them to to live within him and acknowledge them in a way that he hadn't in earlier games. And you see this in the books as well. The books are great. If you haven't read the books, read the books. They're they're really wonderful. Um and we see an evolution in Geralt um that is fascinating to observe. Uh and s and I got to live through it um playing Geralt in the games. So I I recognized that in Geralt. Um

Why Doug Sees Himself in Geralt

SPEAKER_02 6:10

I certainly in my own life have been uh the person who I don't know if this applies directly, but my wife always says, I'm gr I I'm terrible in it with spilt milk. I'm horrible with spilt milk. But in a crisis, I'm the guy you call. You know, and I think a lot of guys can can kind of relate to that. Um there was a there was a time, uh I th th there are multiple examples of this in my own life. There was a time when m me and my family were traveling from the UK to America to visit my my parents and my my US family. And we had a stopover in Iceland, and we got on to our Iceland to US flight. And about half an hour in, maybe maybe 20 minutes, half an hour into the flight, I noticed that the the air hosts were uh doing something strange. And they were dealing with this passenger who was a few rows ahead of me. Really big blonde Icelandic guy who had muscles coming out of his nostrils, you know. Um I don't know if he was on steroids or what, but it became relatively clear that he was agitated. And the air hosts were trying to calm him down. He wasn't calming down. Um he's he started getting up and moving around the cabin. I looked around me and I think if i if if anyone else noticed, nobody was doing anything, um, which was correct, you know, that the air hosts were doing their job and they were trying to contain the situation, but it became clear to me that they needed help. So I got up and I went to this little blonde woman who was standing behind him while uh a male air host and another female air host were in front of him, kind of dealing with him and his arms and what was an increasing agitation in this guy. And he wasn't yet violent, but he was getting to the point where that was, it was clear that that was the next step. And I walked up to this little blonde air host, and and she was very agitated. She was like, Oh my god, this is this is getting really out of hand. And I'd I I'd tapped her on the shoulder, I said, Do you need help? And she said, Yes, please. Can you help grab his arms? And so I I helped restrain this guy, and it took four of us to get him back in his seat. And then other people started to step up, and there was a guy on the flight who was an aromatherapy expert, and he started producing things out of his bag that he was allowed to take on the flight because he was officially a medical person. And he started like waving lavender under him and stuff like that. And I stepped back when it was clear that I I my role was, you know, if they had needed me again, I would have stepped up again. But I I I I stepped away. Um and the plane turned around and went back to Iceland. And I don't know what happened to the guy, but we were put on another flight like four hours later. Anyways, my point is that I'm that kind of guy. Um I often see the danger before others do, and I'm the first one to step in and go, something needs to be done. Something needs to happen. And I recognize that part of myself in Geralt. Um I say it sounds like a questline from the Witcher, honestly. It does kind of. And I'm not I'm I don't tell that story to say I'm a hero or anything. No, not at not at all. I don't see myself that way at all. But I recognize in Geralt the

The Reluctant Hero

SPEAKER_02 10:25

need to be um he doesn't want to be a hero. That's not his goal. He sees a problem that needs to be solved and and he does his best to f to resolve it. Um and I think a lot of people recognize that in Geralt as well. That's partly why he's such an iconic character, because i in every single one of us as human beings, we recognize danger or a problem or an issue that needs to be resolved. And we step up in whatever way we personally can. Some of us do it physically, some of us do it emotionally, some of us, some of us are more in a support role, some of us are more um some of us can't. I think that's a reality too, that some of us are faced with a problem and and and we can't resolve it. We need others to help us do that. And then maybe we can step into a another role. But it's that aspect of Geralt where he's he's not out to be the one who slays the bandits. They're just there, and they're they're they are pillaging innocent people, and he knows that's not right. And he steps in to to make it right in in whatever way he knows how. God, I can talk, Steven.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

I know, I love I love hearing that.

When Geralt Changes People's Minds

SPEAKER_00 12:07

So I mean, just as a side note, that that that story, I think what was interesting is when you talk about the other people then coming forward. And something I've seen often is, you know, they talk about it like bystander syndrome, right? And this idea of being an upstander, you know, so that's not necessarily somebody's like, you know, driving and trying to fix something, but somebody's willing to stand up and you know, um even acknowledge that something's happening. And actually, as as soon as one person does that, it's almost like it gives the the everyone else permission to think, oh, okay, this is acknowledged that this is a thing. But I I I I love that that idea, and some of my favorite quests from from from the Witcher uh series is you know, blood and wine and the the woman who turns into the bird, and and and often you know blood isn't shed, and and maybe um Gerald will have a bit of a firm but loving word with with with with whoever like the agitator is or whoever the person that's potentially in the wrong, and that they'll they'll they'll listen. He's been able to go into a situation and not just change it, change it, but change someone's mind as well. And the long-lasting ramifications of that are are potentially like generational, that he's sort of been able to bestow a story or educate somebody in a in a in a loving but firm way that he does.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Yeah, yeah. I and I think that we all see that in him and and admire that and and

Why Geralt Feels So Human

SPEAKER_02 13:34

love him for it. Um and he and he can make wrong choices as well. He can be wrong. Um that makes him human, that makes him relatable, that makes him a great character. And I think that's one of the things that makes Gerald and the Witcher stories uh so wonderful is that they it's not sugar coated. There isn't necessarily a happy ending. There's an ending.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Um but it's an ending. And I think, you know, and I you know, and I remember as a kid, like I was never too drawn to to shows like He-Man and things like that, because I think what you're talking about, I felt like these masculine characters, you know, or what the the definition of masculine characters lacked lacked depth that that was of of much interest to me, and I was much more drawn to TV shows that at the time back then in the 90s, you'd have said were like girls' shows, I guess. It it it it's not that like, oh, this is a person with a heart of stone, and then we find out that there's more to it, you know, which is a it's it's a nice trope in and of itself, but and I think it's so much about how you you perform as characterists that you you sort of know out the gate that there's a depth and a sensibility to this this person. This is a totally not at all the same, but for some reason it comes to mind, which is you know, Dr. Cox from Scrubs, you know, who's the kind of surly, you know, um ranting mentor, but uh but you know right away because of because of how um I've forgotten the name of the actor, how he plays plays him, that there's there's like depths there, and it's always gonna be um the you know that brusque kind of like you know um touchy masculinity to him, but you you know there's more to it, which makes it so much more interesting to to engage with and and and watch. And I feel like that was the same with within.

Finding the Humanity in Every Character

SPEAKER_02 15:41

I think that's the human conundrum, actually. There, you know, we we all know people who on the surface um are hard or difficult to deal with or um assholes, for lack of a better word, you know. Uh we all know people like that. We've all experienced that. Um those people are human. You know, there's there is a reason why they behave in the way that they do. It's not your job to resolve that or to help them find their inner child or whatever it is they they need. But, you know, the recognition that just because a person's an asshole doesn't mean that they've always been an asshole. I think that what I do as an actor is I try to find in every character I play something that I can relate to. I either because I recognize it in myself or because, as you say, I aspire to that. Um it's something potentially I I suppose this is aspire to, but or it's something that I uh I hadn't thought about in my own life as a way to move forward. Um so I try to find those things in the characters that I play, and sometimes they present themselves to me without me looking. Um and I and I raise those up as much as I can. Uh I also put myself into my characters, so even if I'm playing a villain, I try to find the part of me in this character who has a good reason for doing what they're doing. I again I'm not, you know saying that what they're doing is right or or or kind or generous or any any of those things. But they're doing what they're doing for a reason. Very I don't I I've never come across a villain who is just a villain. Well, actually, there is I don't know. There's that dude from No Place for Old Men played by uh Isabel Barden.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Um No Country for Old Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah. And he is just the most fascinating villain because he lives by a s a code. Aaron Ross Powell Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Just senseless sort of Well, it isn't senseless. There he has Well I mean it's like that that someone's life could could could end depending on the coin flip.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Yeah, but also he's you know he's doing what he's doing for a purpose that has a value to him. So for him, he's not a bad guy. Um He knows he's doing bad things, but he does them for a purpose that for whatever reason he feels is necessary. I don't know if this is answering your question at all. Aaron Ross Powell I I think that it as an actor I try to find in every character what's relatable. Um because that's what makes them real. If we create characters who are just two-dimensional, two-dimensional villains or two-dimensional heroes, there's nothing to relate to. And I see that a lot now in you know, you have to find things that are relatable in a character, and then you have to find the twist. What's different about this? It's not just that this doctor is an alien. It's you know, that it's about the his perception of the world around him. And again, that's predictable as well to a certain extent, but it's how you do it. It's how you do it that becomes interesting.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

To me, anyways.

What Makes a Great Villain?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Um, just I one of my favorite lines, I'm guessing it's in the book. I can't remember because I've I'm sure it would have been that Cormac McCarthy would have written it, but from No Country for Old Men is when you know the the guy, the the the the villain, he's like in front of someone and they ask he asks him, like, are you gonna kill me? And his response was is like, Do you see me? Am I standing in front of you? is his response to that question. Yeah. And then it cuts, and you never you never find out whether he's he's killed this person or not, but it's it's it's it's kind of said in the Yeah, they do that.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

That that's Woody Harrelson's character, I think, in the film. Yes, yeah, yeah. Um who uh I think we do find out later. Well, I don't want to. Yeah, he is, isn't he?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Well, yeah, we don't want to expose it.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

But there's another scene in that, and it's a uh it's a uh a woman and her husband is the one who really is in trouble. But her husband gave her up. And Javier Bardem's character is is sat in her living room and she says, You're going to kill me, aren't you? You don't have to do this. And he considers that, and then he flips a coin. And we never find out what happened. Or I I don't remember if we find out, but you know, the next thing we see is him walking out the room, out of the house. And uh and that's kind of fascinating, you know, that that he doesn't have to do it. Um there's two sides to that coin. Human

The Good Nature Beneath the Shell

SPEAKER_02 21:19

beings are born into this world like puppies. You know, we we're all born into this world with a with a little spark. Some of us have a little more of a fighting spark than others. Um, but all of us uh through society and through our experiences growing up are taught how we need to behave to survive. And that's just the reality of the world. And it can be sad because you know, the loss of that inner child, the loss of the the innocence is a truly tragic thing. But it's not I don't believe, I don't believe. I believe in the good nature of human beings at their core. Sometimes though the shell is a really, really hard and thick shell.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

That's a lovely reflection.

Knowing Which Battles to Walk Away From

SPEAKER_02 22:29

And sometimes you gotta walk away from it. You know, you can't, there are battles you can't fight.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Well, and I don't want to open up a whole other rabbit hole that we could take an entire hour, but there's there's also the people that are like that that for whatever reason, just extremely drawn to, and they're like, I'm gonna I'm gonna have this person be in my proximity for a very long time. Um and then and then you become not very well yourself.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

You know, well, and that's when you have to that's what boundaries are for. That's when you have to set, you know set those boundaries. And and that and that can be really hard. You know, and that's where like issues like domestic violence become so difficult because you know there's a person in there that is that is true and generous and you know good. But it comes to a point where it's not your job to fix that. And it's and it can't be, and you have to protect yourself.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

I think um and actually

Why Video Games Let Characters Breathe

SPEAKER_00 23:35

it does make me think about you know the that's the beauty of of of of of video games that have that time to get into the the the depth of a character and and you know um all the all the characters that the the the player might be engaging with, you know, to sort of see all different shades of them. Um yeah, I've really this has been such a lovely conversation. Um it's always nice to me, I think, when it can it's all you know, I'm interested in you know games and things that, but it's it's it's it's nice to go to different different depths, you know. Um and I I'm I'm I'm glad with how we sort of kick things off talking about that, you know, the the the teaching work parallel and then all of the the paddling that was going on underneath as well.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Yeah, yeah. For anybody out there thinking, you know, watching this and going, oh man, I thought

What Teaching Taught Doug About Acting

SPEAKER_02 24:28

I I I wanted to be a teacher, now I'm not so sure. No, go do it. It's great. I learned so much from teaching. I honestly I learned probably more from my students than I ever learned in school. Um just by simply trying to trying to explain to a younger actor, a less experienced actor, how I think about it and how I try to go about it helped me identify more strongly my own approach, my own craft. And I don't mean that in a selfish way. I mean that, you know, in order to teach, you do actually have to understand what it is that you really think and what it is that you really do. Um you can't teach if you don't reflect on how you approach the same tasks, the same creative pursuits, you know. So the process of teaching is also a process of self-discovery in my experience. And that's a beautiful thing for the person who's the teacher, but it can also be a beautiful thing for the students. I am 100% sure that there were moments in classes where I realized in the moment that I was wrong about something, or that I had been describing something not in the way that I really wanted to. Um or I discovered through a student's own process of discovery that I had been thinking about something um in a way that wasn't as helpful to me as it could have been. It's a shared experience teaching. You know, it's not teacher imparts knowledge, student soaks it up. At least not to me, anyways. It's a pro I mean, there is a an element of that because there, you know, the teacher has to set tasks and and identify goals and all that kind of stuff. That's that those those those structures have to be there for a learning process to exist in a formal setting. But then it has to be a, as much as possible, a shared experience of of growth. And good teachers know that. And good students discover that and know that as well. I mean, some of my favorite moments with students were when they challenged me about what I was asking.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

They're not afraid to do that, I've lost.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

No, no, they uh yeah, many of them are not. And you know, when they challenged me about something that I was asking them to explore or to to think about or whatever, um I, you know, sometimes I was able to come back and say, no, absolutely try it. And sometimes I go, you know, absolutely you're right. Try it your way, see what happens. And um sometimes that yielded better results than what I was suggesting. And sometimes it didn't. And we both learned something, you know.

The Importance of Humility

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Well, I think it's important for students to be able to see humility as well, you know. Um, or else you in my experience, or else you lose them. Or I've certainly lost, you know, uh the ability to be taught by someone because of a decision, probably wrongly, but a lot of time that I've made about someone because of their blunt-headedness, you know. Whilst at the same time it's tricky, right? Because when I was 18, 19, 20, I literally knew it all. Um, and and I wasn't as teachable as I would have liked to have been. And and I think um, yes, there's a balance to it.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

I think that's very true of a lot of people. I was the same, Stephen. I was, you know, when I was when I first went to grad school, my teachers we used to get we got grades, but they were handwritten on a slip of paper where there was also a handwritten or a typed note describing their experience with each individual student. And you got, we all had cubbyholes in the hallway, the grad students. So at the end of each semester, we would get an uh an envelope with notes from our individual tutors for that semester with a grade, but also with uh a review of their experience with us. And at the end of my first semester in grad school, all of my notes were Doug is a very talented student, very intelligent and highly capable. However, he argues everything. He doesn't want, he doesn't seem to want to learn. He doesn't seem, you know, he he he has an answer for everything, you know, these kinds of things. And it was a real blow to me. I was like, what? I thought I was just engaging in creative conversation and pursuit. And it, you know, it was a hard lesson to learn. And I and I I took it on board and I tried very hard. And I think that my teachers in grad school would agree that by the time I left, I was a much more collaboratively engaged individual. And and and, you know, certain things during my time there from my second semester onwards would bear that out.

End

SPEAKER_02 29:59

But it was one of those moments where I just went, yeah, I don't I I I gotta change my approach. I got things to learn here, and I'm not gonna learn them this way.